Cp and Cf Release – Sam Goulden Golf



Learn Ben Hogans Secret

Discussing the Cp and Cf release in golf and how to create a cp release. Also highlighting the release of ben hogan, sam snead, ken venturi, vijay singh, rory mcilroy, and phil mickelson.


22 Responses to “Cp and Cf Release – Sam Goulden Golf”

  1. MiniBlueDragon says:

    Great video Sam. CP all the way for me ideally as it seems less
    timing-oriented. The issue I seem to be struggling with at the moment is
    more one of keeping the handle ahead of the ball at the same time as
    squaring the face. I hold onto the forward lean great but then the face
    comes through wide open resulting in nasty pushes or push-slices (sometimes
    push-hooks if I try to over-correct) 🙁

  2. TheGolfallday says:

    would you say in order to practice this kind of release we should practice
    holding the face off and pushing the ball to the right to over exagerate
    holding off the club head?

  3. Sam Goulden says:

    Actually it feels like you are rotating your left forearm and also turning
    your body as you roll. If you roll your arm and don’t rotate your body the
    face will overtake the handle. Feels a little like your right elbow is
    connected to your right hip bone through impact. the ball should start
    pretty straight and fade if anything.

  4. Sam Goulden says:

    Yeah you need more left forearm roll and as you roll the left wrist keep it
    flat. Also, as you roll it, feel like the handle is being driven down into
    the left thigh. Over roll it if you want.

  5. Sam Goulden says:

    yeah. that’s a sign of cf

  6. MiniBlueDragon says:

    A. Maze. Ing! Can’t believe how much better I’m hitting it with the feeling
    of driving the club into the left thigh. I worked on just than feeling for
    a range session yesterday and ended up hitting push-draw after push-draw.
    Thank you thank you thank you! Another teacher on my “must see him if he
    comes to the UK” list!

  7. Sam Goulden says:

    Thanks Dude!

  8. jchanggolf says:

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CENTIFUGAL FORCE. IT IS FICTITIOUS.

  9. Sam Goulden says:

    @ Jchanggolf.. Centifugal? Spelling?

  10. Nick Frank says:

    This is great stuff. I find turning the back of my left hand down helps
    trap and cover the ball as long as I continue to turn. If I stop turning
    and moving to my left side I flip the club.I would like to see you do
    lesson demonstrating how to consistently get the divot 4″ in front of the
    ball.

  11. kbclements says:

    Always some tool with a physics degree – that’s why my spin cycle doesn’t
    work and my centrifuge – well – it’s an affect – not a law.

  12. PingG10guy says:

    CP vs CF are a trackman numbers conversation. Not a look. Not a handle
    position.

  13. horsepoetry says:

    No such thing as CF! CF is an erroneous description of the phenomenon of
    inertia. An object will continue in a straight line unless acted upon by an
    outside force, which is the golfer and/or gravity. Reducing the outside
    force “allows” the club to return to a straight path. Merely stalling the
    body and hands allows a CF release to happen as the clubhead tries to fly
    off in a straight line. If you let go, it would. Your concept of doing CP
    release by actively holding off the wrist and rolling the whole unit may be
    valid, but in truth merely continuing hard torso rotation into the finish
    also accomplishes this same release without the active rolling of the arm.
    It is impossible to “CF release” and cross the forearms post impact (like
    Mickelson, Singh, Mcilroy) unless the arms can pass the body. In every demo
    of CP you manage to keep the torso turning way ahead of the club while in
    CF you don’t. If in those CF demos, you merely stopped, kept the club in
    position post-impact and rotated the torso another 30 degrees left, you’d
    no longer be in a CF release. My question is, would it not be better to “CP
    release” freely by merely rotating and accelerating the torso hard to the
    finish with the upper arms held to the body (ala Hogan) rather than focus
    on active arm rotation to accomplish it? Hogan and Snead both collapse
    their left wrist post impact without turning the face over or getting the
    CF crossed forearms look. This tells me they are not achieving that angled
    hinge release by rolling a firm left wrist, but by merely keeping the torso
    ahead of the arms so the face can’t roll over post impact as everything
    releases fully. Its been proven than any active attempt at creating CP
    release with the arms and hands actually slows down the clubhead. You can
    keep the butt of the club pointing at the navel by either manipulating the
    grip end or by simply rotating the torso fast enough to keep up with the
    grip end so it can’t point right of the navel. So I wonder if one wouldn’t
    be a longer, more accurate hitter by merely releasing freely but with hard
    torso acceleration to prevent roll over.

    • Alexanda TG says:

      Spot on. My high school physics teacher taught me that there is no such
      thing as Centrifugal force. Centripetal is the most efficient from my
      understanding.

    • horsepoetry says:

      +Alex Phibbs Great! When I got an email notice I expected an argument
      against my statement about CF. In physics a true “force” by definition is
      applied to an object BY ANOTHER OBJECT. When we swing the club head, we
      feel something pulling it away from us. One merely has to ask what the
      other object on the golf course is that is pulling the club away from us
      throughout the golf swing. There isn’t one (other the earth exerting force
      on the object at some points), and in truth what you feel is simply the
      Inertia of the club head wanting it to move in a straight line instead of
      an arc. You feel this whether swinging a golf club down around and up, or
      swinging a baseball bat horizontal to the ground, so its not the earth
      generating this so called force. This is why it is sometimes termed a
      “fictitious” force.

      There is a lot of stuff going on anatomically in these videos that is
      different between cf and cp other than just the supposed cp or cf “forces”,
      and these things might be a better place to focus. In “cf” here Sam stalls
      the lower body and torso and allows the club to freely pass the center line
      of the body. Inertia , the club wanting to travel in a straight line, takes
      the club out down the target line rather than around the body.
      Anatomically, you only have two options at that point to allow the club to
      continue forward past the body 1) chicken wing the elbow and break the left
      wrist (common among high handicappers) or 2) allow the right arm to
      straighten and the club face to roll over (Rory and Phil).

      If you watch the cp demonstrations closely, Sam continues a strong torso
      and lower body rotation all the way to finish just as Hogan said he did.
      Watch his body after the club hits the turf. The club never crosses the
      center line of the body because the body keeps turning and anatomically
      there is no necessity to roll the club face over, though you could. I can’t
      think of a reason why you’d want to though if you didn’t need to, and that
      is the advantage of that style of lower body action.

      Anyone who has watched the videos, ask yourself what would happen in the cp
      swing if Sam continued the recommended arm and hand release motion, but
      stalled and did not rotate the lower body so consistently past impact. It
      sure wouldn’t look like a cp release anymore.

      On the other hand if you did Sam’s “cf release,” allowing inertia to uncock
      the wrist pendulum-style into impact BUT also continued to rotate the lower
      body and torso even harder past impact as Hogan said he did, it would look
      like a “cp release” without the forearms and club face rolling over much at
      all in relation to the club path/plane. That’s pretty much what Hogan looks
      like in a normal shot; the release is not held off or “dragged through” but
      the club face also doesn’t roll over like Phil or Rory. So is Hogan cf or
      cp?

      So I have to question whether cp and cf are more about hand and arm
      manipulation as shown here, or more a result of what the hands and arms are
      forced to do post impact by what the lower body and torso are
      doing…..timed stall vs continued rotation. Maybe it would be better (and
      more true in terms of physics) to focus on the torso and describe golfers
      as either “stallers” or “rotators” in reference to their impact/release
      style. Then within those two very different golfer DNA profiles you can
      talk about an individual swing as either a full release or a held off
      release (dragging and holding), both of which can be useful variations.
      Most pros are capable of altering hand/arm styles of release to some extent
      depending on the shot, but rarely does an individual deviate from their
      chosen torso strategy, be it a timed stall (Rory, Phil, Vijay, Ells) or
      continuous rotation (Hogan, Snead, Trevino, Player, early Nicklaus,
      Venturi, Knudson).

      And where does Tiger fit? It depends on the year, the particular week and
      the coach of the month…..maybe that’s the problem?

    • Alexanda TG says:

      +horsepoetry Yes, I would say controlling the club with your body is more
      efficient than a timed release, but there are so many variables in golf
      that make comparing different players and their swing positions irrelevant.
      One thing is for sure, some of the greatest players follow the CP route,
      myself included. CP is more of a flowing action that incorporates the body
      as a whole, whereas CF (the absence of CP) requires different parts to fire
      at specific points. For me, CP seems more efficient under pressure, since
      the tempo can be altered and the results will be better than with CF. At
      the end of the day the guy who can get the ball in the hole better than the
      others wins, no matter his release or sequencing. Fun game.

    • Rat454 says:

      Nice post!, thanks it helped clear up a few things for me.

  14. horsepoetry says:

    Don’t Take me wrong in my last post. Just playing devil’s advocate. Your
    videos are some of the most thoughtful and thought provoking out there. Not
    the usual dogma. I hope we never lose sight of how effective were the
    swings of the 40’s and 50’s when heavy persimmon, unforgiving blades and
    balata required very sound body use more in line with Ted Williams than
    Phil and Rory.

  15. emomagica says:

    This is one of the best talks on cp/cf. I wish that people wouldn’t get so
    hung up on the terminology. How does one optimize a cp swing for better
    performance with the longer clubs? I remember reading that trackman DAT
    showed that it is easier to create optimal impact condition with the driver
    with a cf release and that cp puts up better numbers with short irons. Any
    truth to this and what setup changes must the cp player do to bomb it?

  16. Scott Sanders says:

    Sam, does the square to square method incorporate a CP release?

    I look at Stricker and from DTL the handle is moving left, but he also has
    some forearm rotation similar to CF.

    • Sam Goulden says:

      It could be either with s2s. the main concern with s2s is that the preset
      angle is pulled through the impact zone. This will result in the club head
      overtaking the hands at some point. the more the player fades the more the
      cp seems to be intact. the more the player draws, the more the club head
      flies out and can flip over due to the centrifugal force of the motion

  17. Joseph Biraglia says:

    Sam, is one of the swings you discuss in this video more appropriate for
    the square to square method or can you use either?

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